Sunday, December 30, 2018

INTERVIEW: Jon Spencer (September 2018)


Sixteen years on from Jon Spencer Blues Explosion’s brief flirtation with the mainstream on their infectious lycanthropic anthem ‘She Said’, the trio’s all-hollerin’ frontman recently unleashed the first album released exclusively under his own name. All riffs, swagger and shimmy, Spencer Sings the Hits (tagline: “The world’s most beloved melodies on one long-playing high-fidelity recording”) offers up a delirious grab-bag of knowing riffola as Spencer’s whooping vocals encompass everyone from Mick Jagger and Elvis to Cramps frontman Lux Interior.

I chatted with the New York-based performer – also a veteran of garage-rock favourites Boss Hog and Pussy Galore – on the eve of the album’s release.

How’s it going, sir?

Good, thanks! You said ‘Chris Carter’…? 

That’s right.

Not the Chris Carter…?!

Not the X-Files guy, no…

Isn’t there a Chris Carter who’s a member of… who’s the guy from… I was thinking the Throbbing Gristle member.

No, not that one either. There’s also a crime novelist over here who writes books called things like The Night Stalker which you always see advertised at railway stations. People feel compelled to send me photos every time they spot one…

Wow!

So correct me if I’m wrong, then, but after all these years, this is your first exclusively solo record, coming out solely under your own name. 

Yeah… yeah, that’s right. I’ve made lots of records, I’ve had a few different bands, but this is the first proper solo record. I mean, I guess I was not too jazzed on the idea of doing it as a solo record or going out on my own name – I’d much rather use a band name – but it seemed it might be the quickest way to clue people in as to what the music sounds like, and what to expect. So yes, this is my first solo album.

It’s a lot of fun – it’s a real hip-shaker, this album.

Well, thankyou!

Musically, the songs on the record have two specific components: the riff, and the swagger (or the shimmy!) – and they all seem to tie together really nicely with whatever the song’s title is. Which comes first of these elements when you’re writing a song, or are they inextricably entwined?

Well, mostly I like to write with other people, but with this record I didn’t have a band. You know, I was sort of between bands and really wanted to have a band [laughs], but there wasn’t one around – so I wrote these songs by myself. It’s not the one time I’ve ever done that – when I was just starting out with Pussy Galore, on a lot of those early Pussy Galore records I was writing the songs on my own and then presenting them to the band. So with this record, with Spencer Sings the Hits, I probably wrote ’em… well, I did write the songs in New York City last summer. 

I guess the thing that came first would be the riff, you know, because I was writing with a guitar. So that was how they started – I would make quick recordings of things which caught my fancy, things I liked, and then began to sort through those… notes, if you want to call them audio notes, and began to flesh things out, put things together. The next step was to make demos, just in my apartment, using GarageBand on my phone! And so by that time, the songs were more ‘song-like’, you know, with different parts and words.

There’s a lot of banging and clanging going on throughout – what’s being smacked in the background here?

Uh, there’s a lot of different pieces of trash, it’s all metal stuff – if you want to see photos of some of the items that were clanged and banged around, you could go to the Shove Records Instagram account. Some of the early posts there, there’s at least two if my memory serves correctly of some of the percussion tools that were used on the record. Yeah - it was, I guess, a throwback to my early days with Pussy Galore again; to use metal percussion, and sort of a nod to my industrial roots – bands like Einstürzende Neubauten or Test Dept. My first band, Pussy Galore, was a group which had somebody bangin’ on pieces of metal. So this is, I guess, a “return-to-form” in some way. On the record, I played everything – all the percussion was overdubbed once the basic tracks were done. We tracked live in the studio, where the band was myself and Sam Coomes playing the keyboards – the keyboard bass synth. M Sord was the drummer, and once we got the basic tracks done, I added other stuff: most importantly, the singing and the percussion.

Since we’ve been playing live - we’ve done a tour in the States here in the summer and we’re going to be headed to Europe in October – we have the same guys on the record: it’s Sam Coomes and M Sord, but I drafted Bob Bert to come and play percussion, and Bob is the same guy who was in my old band Pussy Galore, bangin’ on metal back in the 80s. So it really is a serious trip back in time! [Laughs]

I say this with the greatest of respect, because it takes skill to do this with music and still make it compelling, but the album as a whole doesn’t seem to really be about anything! If it does have an overarching subject matter, it is precisely that which it expounds: the lure of the groove. Do you think after 30-odd years it’s a kind of joyful affirmation of what keeps you going?

Well, you know… yeah, that’s a nice way of putting it. Personally, I would like to think there’s a little bit of substance in there [laughs], but I guess as a lyric-writer I have a different vantage point, or a different perspective. But I think there are definitely songs on the record which are kind of about playing in a rock‘n’roll band – as I said, it was something that was playing on my mind: I miss having a band, I wanted to play in a band… But when I was writing and making the record, I tried to move quickly, and I tried not to agonise or overthink decisions… try to move somewhat quickly, and to trust my instincts.

I really enjoyed the video you put together for ‘Do the Trash Can’, and it’s a visual style you’ve returned to a bunch of times over the years. 

Yeah, I mean, I’m a fan of B-movies, of horror movies and science fiction. The credit for the video really needs to go to the person who made it, Andrew Hooper, who’s a young filmmaker from Sacramento, California. It was meant to be… we’re actually making a proper video for the song – we filmed it the other week, but it’s not going to be ready… the premiere’s not ’til October, I think. That was meant to be a visualiser or something – but yeah, I like it. It’s not the first time I’ve employed that kind of imagery.

What is it about that B-movie aesthetic – all the horror movie iconography and such – that attracts you?

Uh… I don’t know! I like being scared, I like things which are different and strange – I’ve always had a soft spot for horror ever since I was a kid, and since I’ve grown up, it has stayed with me. It’s a good question – you know, as I got older, music became the overwhelming obsession and passion for me… but it was, I guess, in a similar sort of way, music that was strange, or ugly in certain ways. You know, you could maybe even call it a kind of ‘monster music’! I was drawn to kind of ugly sounds – you know, punk was antisocial in some ways, it could be argued. Why…? I don’t know! [Laughs] I guess it’s what I’m trying to figure out. But, you know, maybe the reason this stuff appeals to me, or sparks something inside of me – horrific imagery, B-movie imagery, aggressive music or outsider music, outsider culture in general – is that I feel in some way an outsider from society, so this is what speaks to me.

I’m interested to know, then, particularly in light of what you were saying about that idea of making something from nothing, or repurposing really primitive elements: do you see yourself as part of that American tradition of artists on the fringes? People like the Ed Woods, Samuel Fullers and Edgar G. Ulmers from the 50s?

I guess, you know, I’m certainly familiar with those artists. I can’t really… I can only guess to their motives, but my hunch is that those people aspired to the heights of celebrity, the heights of culture – that they didn’t think of themselves as making ‘outsider art’. For me, I maybe don’t… It’s the same – I think: “Oh, I’m making a hit record!” [Laughs] I understand – I’m aware, and self-aware enough, that this is not really palatable to most people, but it’s what I want do, and maybe it’s the best I can do, you know? But I’m not trying to be wilfully obscure – I’m not doing this because I want people to go away; I’m not doing this because I want to be ignored. The more people who want to listen to Spencer Sings the Hits, the better – the doors are open for everybody. I welcome all-comers.

I remember when Radiohead put out The Bends, they kept getting a question related to the lyrics of the title song, where it says: “I wish it was the 60s”. But it seems to me like - particularly with your album title this time around – it taps into that very late-60s thing where anyone could say “Oh, we’ve made a hit record – we’re playing the hits”. Do you think you’d feel more at home in that sort of time period?

Well, I mean, really… I’m old! You know?! [Laughs] I was born in ’65. I don’t remember much of it, but the hangover from the 60s lasted through much of the 70s. As someone who grew up in America, and where – yeah, like I said, I was alive for half of it; I don’t remember much, but there was that 60s hangover – that was really formative years for me, and left a great impression. So yeah, I think that’s in my blood, in my DNA, and it informs the way I perceive the world and the way I make a record like this – certainly the kind of ridiculous title, Spencer Sings the Hits, is coming from that kind of world. Do I think of that time, that era – do I wish I could turn back the clock, do I wish I could go back to that time, or do I think that things were better…? No, I’m not pining for another age – and I’m not a Luddite, either. If anything, I’m looking towards the future, you know? I have great hope.

It seems to be a very specifically American phenomenon – the fact that pop culture has so many iterations, it’s constantly moving forwards and leaving things behind, yet inevitably ends up recycling and cannibalising itself. Do you think you’re a very specific musical by-product of a culture like America’s?

Uh… by-product, or just product?! [Laughs] They have their… Again, there’s like that: hey, I love to talk about B-movies, I love to talk about people like Ed Wood… I love to talk about underground culture, or trash culture, if you will. But I’m a little sometimes reluctant, because I don’t want… Again, I’m not like: this is just a joke, or this is a throwaway. There is a subtle shade – there’s a difference. There’s a weight, or a kind of meaning between the two words ‘product’ and ‘by-product’.  Yeah – it’s a rock‘n’roll record, Spencer Sings the Hits: rock‘n’roll is a fertilist kind of artform, but it still is a very powerful artform. I’m aware of the contradictions, you know…? But I’m also kind of… for me, it’s serious business.

You’ve been around for a long time now – you very much walk the walk and talk the talk. There are a couple of songs on this record which really kind of sum it all up in terms of what you stand against - particularly ‘Fake’ and ‘Beetle Boots’, where you address the idea of the motivation for making music being there, but the elements not being in place for some people to make it authentic. As someone who’s managed to stay the course over the years, what are those elements, and why do you have what others don’t?

Oh, jeez. [Laughs] Uh… I… uh… it’s hard for me to answer a question like that, in the same way I guess that it’s easier for me to write a song like ‘Fake’ or ‘Beetle Boots’ which is sort of pointing a finger and condemning someone else – as opposed to holding a spotlight up to myself and saying “I’m the King of Rock”! Even though there’s a grand tradition of boastful songs in rock‘n’ roll and the blues, it’s not the easiest thing for me. So I don’t know – I think that one of the things, perhaps, is like I tried to say earlier: this is important to me, it’s something that I take very, very, very seriously… it’s done with great purpose and great precision, and with great care. And it’s done in a… I’m not sure if I can say this in the right way, but it’s done for itself, you know. It’s not done for: “Oh! I can sell records, and then I can buy a Mercedes Benz, or I’ll be able to meet girls or something”. The record - the song - is the reason.

I saw you live around about 2004 supporting The Hives, and I found it quite interesting that it seemed like what you’d been doing kind of dovetailed with what was going on in popular culture, or the predominant musical trends at the time.

Yeah, there were… I would agree with that, it was my impression as well that there were a few different times – the Blues Explosion had a very long run, and there were definitely a few different times where it seemed as if “Oh, yeah, here are some bands where I can definitely see us sort of rubbing off on these people”. Yeah… what was the question though…?!

Well, I may have misread this completely, but I found it really interesting watching that show, because you were coming off the back of a minor hit with ‘She Said’ but it felt like you didn’t seem to be that interested in holding the audience’s attention for any great length of time.

In the concert, or in the band’s career…?

This was in the concert itself.

No… it may have just been an off-night, you know? It’s… yeah, I don’t really know what to say! It’s not like we took the support slot because a manager told us to – you know, we took on the job of our own volition. It was not the practice of the Blues Explosion to drag our feet, or do things begrudgingly, you know? We always try to do our best onstage – so yeah, it’s hard for me to speak to that. Maybe it was just a bad show. I mean, it wasn’t supporting The Hives – I like those guys, I like that band and they were very nice people. It wasn’t my most favourite string of dates – I can’t really recall why, but… yeah, it wasn’t the best run of dates we ever had. But I certainly don’t have a memory of, like, just being pissed off and thinking, like “Fuck this! I can’t be bothered, this other band’s no good and their fans are a bunch of jerks”. [Laughs] I don’t remember feeling that way, so…

I guess what I’m driving at is that it sometimes seems to be the eternal curse of the bands who are the influencers themselves playing second-fiddle to the bands they may have influenced.

Oh, yeah. I’ve made a career out of that! [Laughs] But here I am, I’m still making records and still get to out on tour, so. Certainly there were things I could’ve done that would’ve made more sense if I was trying to “build a career” or something, but I wasn’t following that – I was following the music; following the muse.

We hear a lot about the “death of the guitar” in music, or the “the death of rock‘n’roll” – it seems like every couple of weeks there’s a new think-piece written about it. 

Yeah, I mean, that’s been going on… probably since the 80s, and throughout my entire career playing in rock‘n’roll bands. Yes, that has come up a lot – there was a huge wave of it in, I guess, the late-90s when you had bands like the Chemical Brothers who were very popular… yeah, mid-90s, late-90s. You know, to me it just seems so ridiculous because it’s just sort of like: well, yeah. It’s copy – it’s just meant to fill the paper! But it’s also… look at the people that they’re citing as the harbingers of the death of rock‘n’roll, people like The Chemical Brothers and the songs that were popular then by these bands that were “killing rock‘n’roll” or “killing the electric guitar” – to me they just seemed like rock‘n’roll songs! It made no sense to me.

What still gets your mojo pumping – are there any contemporary bands that spur you to up the ante, or is it still those original influences that get you going?

No, it’s still a mix – tomorrow I think we’re going to see Kid Congo with his current band, The Pink Monkey Birds. He’s had that band, this current line-up, for maybe five years – they’re such a good band he has going, and it’s great to see him… Their own songs are great, but it’s also wonderful to see them play songs by The Gun Club, and songs by The Cramps. Another current-day group I admire a great deal is Thee Oh Sees, from California. As far as European or UK… uh, example… I can’t think of one right now. There are some, but I’m spacin’ out! So yeah, there’s always people doing cool stuff. There’s always good stuff out there.

There’s a certain amount of knowingness, or performative playfulness about what you do - how much of a role does irony play in your writing?

Uh… not as much as people would like to think, I suppose…? You know, I had an entire band’s existence kind of called into question – just kind of, like… the Blues Explosion was routinely dismissed as an exercise in irony, and that wasn’t where I was coming from; that wasn’t where we were coming from. We were coming from a great love and respect for the music that had inspired us, and was inspiring us. So, yeah… there definitely is a kind of playfulness to my writing, especially as a vocalist – and perhaps that playfulness, or perhaps that light feeling, at time in its humour people will then get confused and mistake it for, like: “Well, this is just a joke – this is not a serious thing”. For me, some of my most favourite artists have that kind of strangeness or lightness, or sense of play – and that’s kind of what appealed to me about that: these were just freaks, and I mean that in the most loving way! You know, you look at someone like Charlie Feathers or Rufus Thomas… let’s look at Little Richard; let’s even look at Elvis Presley. These were kind of oddballs – but these were people who were struck with a vision and stuck by that; they pursued this vision for their entire lives. So I think the kind of weirdness – and yeah, the playfulness of these artists, I think they all share that. That’s always been a huge turn-on for me, and a huge influence. 

I came into this, and I started playing in bands - or wanting to play in bands - because I was so hung up with rock‘n’roll, with certain records and certain bands. And you know, it’s just like being in a garage band – like: “Hey, I love this song so much, let’s try to play it ourselves; let’s try to write some songs like this song”. So, yeah… I’m just going to end up repeating myself. Am I gettin’ the point across…?!

Well, the question I was leading to was: as a writer, are you a postmodernist? Are you someone who pieces these different threads together?

Well, that’s a really dirty word, you know?! [Laughs] But I mean, yes – aren’t we all postmodernists…?

Well, I guess so! But you personally, because you draw from so many different traditions – I’m interested whether you see yourself in that way.

Um… yeah. I think that’s probably a fair thing to say, sure. 

I see you’re heading out on tour with The Melvins to promote this record. Now, that is a seriously gnarly proposition that could almost be billed the Rock‘n’Roll Primitivism tour! 

Yeah – I mean, The Melvins, there’s another fine example of people who are pursuing a vision, and following their… making their own path, and they’re doing it – they’re following it, and they’ve been doing it for so long. Yeah, we just did a couple of weeks, or a week supporting them in the United States, and that’s a band I admire a great deal.

Do you find yourselves egging each other on to get nastier and gnarlier every night?

Uh… no. No! [Laughs] The Melvins do their own thing – they have their show worked out. It was very nice that they asked us to play with them, and they took us out with them on this US tour that just happened in the summer, because these were our first shows ever – it’s not like I had a band, and I’d written songs for the band and the band had been playing them, and then we made the record; as we discussed, I wrote the songs by myself, then we went out to the studio and taught ’em to these two other guys. There was no group that’d ever played this material live, so it was a challenge to re-learn all the stuff, and to figure it out as a new band. So the very first show we played as a band was at the First Avenue Club in Minneapolis which is famous from the Prince song ‘Purple Rain’ – it’s a big place, so it was a real trial by fire. It was very, very nice to be in the company of The Melvins, because they and their crew were very, very supportive people – and so I guess in their kindness and enthusiasm, yeah, perhaps they were egging us on to be nasty! But they were definitely, like I said, very supportive.

So finally, then, I always ask this of people who’ve had a long career in music: what are your five favourite songs that you’ve written, or what are the five that you’d most like to be remembered for?

Um… hoo! Well, if I had to… I don’t know if it’s fair to do this, but if I had to cite one or two from this new record, there are songs which I really favoured when I was recording and mixing them, but I think everything’s sort of changed now and it’s like: well, to be playing them live, to be playing them over and over again live, different feelings grow. I think ‘Do the Trash Can’ is a deeply satisfying song to play live if I wanna open the gates for other bands and other songs. Um… uh… you know, uh… I’ve always been fond of the Blues Explosion song ‘Talk About The Blues’ which we did with Dan the Automator – particularly because that song was really pieced together in the studio; it was a studio creation, it was not so much a band playing. Um… you need five…?!

Well, this is quite interesting that you don’t seem to be able to summon that many! When I’ve asked other artists the same question, some can name five off the top of their head, whereas some of them say it’s like try to pick your favourite children. There’s nothing that particularly jumps out at you…?

Well, like I said, there are songs from the new record which feel really good when they come up in the set, and so I have my current favourites. As far as the back catalogue - there are definitely… I can listen to records from old bands and think: “Yeah, I wish I’d done that differently, or I wish I’d mixed that differently”… it’s a mixed bag of emotions. But yeah, ‘Talk About the Blues’, by the Blues Explosion… ‘Bell Bottoms’, particularly the instrumental introduction for that song with the string section… um… uh… the song ‘NYC 1999’ by Pussy Galore… um… uh…

I mean, I ain’t gonna push you for five, if you’re struggling to name that many! I always just think it’s quite informative to see what artists think of their own work – and you seem to have quite a critical view, where you see it more within the context that you do it at the time.

Yeah, I mean, I basically control the rights for everything, you know? Nothing was signed away in perpetuity, with the exception of the Boss Hog record that was for Geffen. Everything else has reverted back to me with the bands – me, basically. So there are times when I’ll reissue something, prepare something to come out again, and so it’s always a bit strange to get things remastered or to go back and listen to these things, because it’s like listening to somebody else’s record. It’s a bit… yeah, it’s an odd thing!


Spencer Sings the Hits is available now via Shove Records.

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